Interview someone who you consider to be a leader about their perspectives on leadership. Use concepts and frameworks from our discussions and readings to critique and/or explain the leader’s perspectives.

This is the final paper

Susan Fullmer

10/29/2015

LEAD 325

Reflection #3 – Interview Paper

Does Boise State University have a Level 5 Leader?

     When considering who to interview for this assignment, I decided I wanted to speak with a leader who lead a large organization.  Personally, I have had success leading teams, programs, and even small organizations, but I’ve never experienced leadership on a grand scale.  I invited Dr. Robert Kustra, president of Boise State University, to be interviewed.  

     In class we read the article, “Level 5 Leadership”, by Jim Collins.  It talks about the five levels of leadership, but of most interest to me were the qualifications of a level five leader.  According to the article, this level is a nebulous, paradoxical set of abilities that include personal humility and professional will.  By definition it is difficult to achieve, but according to research, it is necessary for a great organization to have a level 5 leader.  Collins states, “Good-to-great transformations don’t happen without Level 5 leaders at the helm.  They just don’t”.

     Time and time again this semester, we have been learning about the characteristics of a level 5 type person.  It involves integrity and authenticity.  Professor S has said this in so many ways, for example, “Relationships, conversations, values matter. . . I know what you value based on what you actually do.  I can think about what I wish I value, but what I actually value is what I do with my life”.

     I was therefore curious to see if any of these traits would be noticeable during my time with President Kustra. To my surprise, he, himself came to find me as I was sitting in the office waiting room after checking in.  I found him to be personable and approachable.  I grew somewhat concerned 10 minutes into the interview when we were still talking about me.  I was worried about running out of time.  But he seemed genuinely interested in me and my experiences at Boise State.  Throughout the interview I found him to be quite candid.  He answered my questions with what felt like truthful and sincere answers.  When he said, “feel free to ask anything you want to ask”, I felt that he meant it.  I mention all of this because I think this demonstrates some of these characteristics of a level 5 leader: open, honest, approachable, and willing to establish a relationship.  By the end of the interview I felt that I could trust him as a leader.  

     I asked my first question, “If you were sitting in this seat, thinking about going into leadership on a large scale, what have you learned that you wish you’d known in the beginning?”  It seems no surprise then, that the first thing he talked about was the Relationship.  He said, “I think probably more than anything else it’s about finessing relationships and knowing how to apply accountability in a way that arrives at a positive result instead of a negative result”.  He went on to say that as a young person he was very zealous about righting the wrongs and fighting for justice, but that at times he would allow his passion and temperament to overtake him so that there wasn’t always a positive outcome.  He wanted to just jump in and fix it, but that wasn’t always helpful, and it turned people off.  He said, “I think learning how to exercise tact, and be diplomatic in the way you are helping people reach their own conclusions rather than pounding them on the head with it which is what I thought I was really good at when I was younger. . . So, I think I have tempered my passion a little bit in ways that makes me more effective”.

     President Kustra and I talked about many things pertaining to leadership.  Here are some of the highlights he stated,

·      I have to be as careful about what I don’t say as what I do say.  Because anything I say is quotable.  Anything I say can be taken easily out of context and turned into something that was not the intended result I had originally hoped for.  Even when you are not on duty.  

·      I think that’s one of the things that I enjoy most about this job is understanding that for every person that walks in that door, there is a different prescription.  You don’t deal with everybody in the same way.  It’s such a complex set of personalities, and attitudes, and styles, and behaviors that you really have to be very careful in not treating someone that comes in at 10:00 the way you treated someone that walked in here at 9:00.

·      I think that’s the other thing about leadership or managing people is that in the end of the day they have to know that you’ve got their back.  That you’re there for them.  That you can be critical and you can suggest to them that they have to drop certain behaviors for example.  I do this on a fairly regular basis, but at the end of the day they have to understand that it’s because you want them to be successful.

·      The best leaders I know are leaders who really enjoy interacting with people on a one on one basis.  Who are not simply interested in walling themselves off in their office and isolating themselves from people they serve or people who’ve elected them. 

     I asked Dr. Kustra how he stayed in touch with student’s issues, given that he is a very busy man and probably spends much of his time with other executives.  Specifically, I wanted to know if he ever talked to the students.  He was very keen on this issue and said, I think this is what you may call a leadership issue – how do you get feedback on what’s going on from down below?”  

     He has a variety of ways of doing this.  For example, he said that anytime he is out in the community, eating at a restaurant for example, he would often interact with students.  He always asks them about their student experience: what classes they are taking, what is their major, who are their professors, and are they having any problems or concerns?  He said, “I’m not looking to expose anybody.  But I am looking for positive or negative feedback.  So if somebody really does have a problem, I can go back to a dean and say, ‘hey you know what, I just talked to some students and they tell me that there is an issue'."

     He also said that he gets invited to student functions where he can talk with students.  In addition, he talks to ASBSU leadership, gets invited to speak at classes, attends focus groups consisting of a wide variety of students, and speaks with parents about their concerns.  He concluded by saying, “You have to have, in a business like this, a continuous feedback loop.  Where you are constantly asking for feedback on ‘how did we do?’, ‘how are we doing?’, ‘any improvements that need to be made?’  If you don’t do that, it won’t be too long, you’ll see that Fresno State’s enrollment has gone up and yours has gone down.”

     So, is President Kustra a Level 5 leader?  Jim Collins believes there are two categories of people:  Those who don’t have the Level 5 seed within them and those who do.  The article points out that the first category consists of people that will never bring themselves to subjugate their own needs for the greater good.  The second category of people are not primarily interested in their own fame, fortune, and power, but rather they want to build, create, and contribute.  Collins said, “The great irony is that the animus and personal ambition that often drives people to become a Level 4 leader stands at odds with the humility required to rise to Level 5.”  

     I don’t think I could accurately judge President Kustra’s leadership abilities and characteristics in the short time we had together.  But I feel confident that I saw indications of many of the traits necessary to be a Level 5 Leader.

     I just interviewed Dr. Robert Kustra, president of Boise State University for a project in my Leadership 325 class.  The assignment is to interview a leader that is doing something similar to what we want to do after graduation.  Now, I can state with a clear conscious that I have never once wanted to run a University.  The thought has simply never occurred to me.  But I want to lead on a large scale, and I'd say he fits the bill.  But with that said, I don't think I would have thought of President Kustra except for one thing, Readers Corner.  

     I stumbled upon Readers Corner three or four months ago.  It is a radio program where Dr. Kustra interviews authors of very interesting books.  My list of, "important books I want to read" are littered with his interviewee's books.  And I do read them.  Or better said, I do listen to them.  I am an excruciatingly slow reader.  Due to that, and all the trauma sounding my reading history, I just couldn't bare to even try it any more.  So, for many years I didn't read anything at all.  Well, then somewhere along the way, I discovered "Book on Tape" at the library.  And I mean tape, as in cassette tape.  (For you youngins who are saying, "what's a cassette tape?" - you can Google it) Then, over time I followed the technology from cassette to CD and finally online - Recorded Book.  It has rocked my world!  Now I "read" all the time.  Sure, I have had to scale back when I started school.  But I have gotten crafty, and listen to my books whenever I can:  while brushing my teeth, doing the dishes, walking across campus.  Pleasure and Sanity Keeping are a couple of the benefits I reap from this endeavor. 

     As a voyeur to Dr. Kustra's program, I have been quite impressed with his people skills.  In a short half hour, he is able to connect with the person he is interviewing on a kind and interested level.  That's the kind of leader I want to be.  That's the kind of leader I'm learning is most effective, one who puts the relationship first.  This is the person I want to interview.  

     I didn't really think he'd say yes.  He is an important and busy man after all.  But if there is one thing I have learned in life, it's to ask.  What's the worst that could happen?  He could say no.  I can live with that.  He could laugh at me.  I doubt he'd do that, but we are brainstorming worst case scenarios here.  Well, I can live with that too.  Laugh away, I don't care.  I'm still going to ask.  He didn't laugh.  He said yes.  

     I told a few trusted souls, "I've got 30 minutes with him, what should I ask?"  I got a really good list of ideas.

1.  Interview the way he interviews.  Sharing experiences.  Be interested.  (that, from my insightful sister)

2.  How has your leadership evolved?  What brought on the changes?  (yep, also my sister)

3.  What new leadership techniques are you using now?

4.  What is the worst thing about you as a leader?  (I really like this one - and it's from my professor!)

5.  Ask more general questions.  What has been effective?  What were the pitfalls?  

6.  Ask him why tuition is so high that students carry school loan debt for much of their lives.  

     I ended up starting the interview asking him, if he were me, what would he ask?  What would he most want to know back in the beginning that he didn't know then, but he knows now?  The very first sentence out of his mouth was about The Relationship!  I'm still buzzing from the experience.  What an amazing conversation we had.  I can't wait to transcribe it (yes of course I recorded it - I didn't want to miss a word!).  There are such nuggets there that I never want to forget.  I'm not going to tell you about it now - oh the suspense!  I'll be writing a kick ass paper that I will probably share here later.  In the mean time I just want to say, thank you President Kustra, for taking time out of your busy day to meet with a lowly, fairly clueless student that really wants to learn.  And I'm sorry that I didn't wear deodorant.  

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